Interview by Dominique Rizet, (french journalist / writer) & Philippe Gaudin, (french journalist)
"We have nothing to do with the death of little Grégory": the Jacob couple express themselves for the first time. They had never spoken. It's in Épinal, in the office of Me Stéphane Giuranna, who defends them with his colleagues Me Alexandre Bouthier and Frédéric Berna, that Marcel & Jacqueline Jacob, great-uncle and great-aunt of little Grégory Villemin, and gave themselves up for the first time, this Thursday, for "L'Est Républicain" and "Vosges Matin", and faced the suspicions that justice bears on them.
Why choose to speak today ?
Marcel Jacob: Our name is thrown out to the public. We want it to stop.
Jacqueline Jacob: We are pictured every day on the newspaper, we are fed up. The photo where I leave the gendarmerie, during the judicial control, remained on the internet for three weeks ...
What is your daily life like ? How are your days going ?
JJ: We’re surprised by everything that’s going on, there’s always something new, it’s painful. Especially when you have nothing to be ashamed of. We have nothing to do with it.
MJ: We're together, it's already great, but it's not always easy. When you've been in custody, in prison ... Every night I still hear the lock on the cell door. I am awake every night. In jail, I was like "But, what am I doing here in prison ? I've never done anything in my life !" We're putting somebody who's done wrong in jail ? But I ? Seventy-two years, I've been in jail !
When you go out, do people approach you to tell you about the matter ?
MJ: No.
JJ: When we met again at the end of 2017, we were well received.
On June 14, 2017, at 8 a.m., the gendarmes arrived at your house and arrested you. You have been taken into custody. How did you experience that ? Can you tell us about this day ?
MJ: It's not complicated, we heard the shutters banging. We were still in bed. We had ordered ice cream from Thiriet, we said to ourselves "Here, we are delivered!". We lower the roller shutter, a lady arrives, she introduces herself: "Dijon Research Section", she tells me. They come in at three or four. "This is for the case of little Gregory, you are in police custody." I said "What is this bullshit?"
We think we are dreaming. After that, I always had a guy behind me. Even to go to the toilet. When they told me about it, I was standing in the kitchen, it cracked up all over me. The tiles, I thought they were breaking under my feet.
JJ: I was paralyzed, I couldn't speak. I was like "But why are they doing this to us?" They didn't even let us call someone to warn us. We weren't even allowed to kiss until Marcel left. I was left all alone with the gendarmes. They searched. Me all alone, until I don't know what time.
You did not expect it, we imagine, even if you had already been heard in 1984 and your house had been searched ...
MJ: No, we didn't expect that at all.
JJ: The search was very early on.
MJ: Yes, three or four days after the death of little Grégory, they came to four gendarmes. They searched. Then two gendarmes stayed there and two left where we were working.
Afterwards, you were imprisoned. What memories do you have of those four days in prison ?
JJ: Inhuman ! I couldn't take it, I couldn't take it anymore. I never went out in four days, I never went for a walk.
MJ: As I said to Judge Claire Barbier: you put someone in jail if they have done something wrong. There, it is not possible to see such a thing.
The justice then imposed on you, for 6 months, a judicial control which prevented you from seeing each other. How did you experience that ?
JJ: It wasn't easy. We wondered what we were doing there. We even said to ourselves that we bothered the people we were with. Even though they were happy to welcome us.
MJ: It's the first time we've been apart for this long. There are times when I couldn't take it anymore. I cried all the time. I cried every day. I was wondering "But what have I done?". Not seeing each other anymore, not being in your house, with your family, it's terrible.
JJ: We couldn't even call each other. Nothing, no contact ...
The police and the courts suspect you of having killed Grégory. Do you have something to do with the murder of the child ?
MJ: Absolutely not, sir.
What were you doing on October 16, 1984 ?
MJ: We worked, because we were on the same team, from 1 p.m. to 9 p.m. We were staff representatives and at 2:30 p.m. we had a union meeting with management. Until at least 5 p.m.
JJ: And before going to a union meeting, I had to report it to the foreman so that he could put someone to replace me on my machine.
Justice considers that you could still have sneaked out of the factory ...
JJ: No, that's wrong.
MJ: No. If anyone was out without a reason, they were fired.
For the prosecution, you had a motive to commit the crime. Is it true that you had an old antagonism towards Grégory's father, an antagonism that exploded in December 1982, during an altercation following a car dispute ...
MJ: There was nothing at all with Jean-Marie. Jean-Marie, I only had a fight with him once, indeed. It was the shot of the reversing light. That's all. We didn't see each other much, but I never had a problem with Jean-Marie. He's my nephew like everyone else. Jean-Marie, I have always loved him like my other nieces and nephews.
There you said to him "I'm not shaking a chef's hand" ...
MJ: Yes, because, us at the factory, that was it.
JJ: Yes, when we spoke of the deputy director, we said the chief.
You would also have spat on your stepbrother Albert Villemin, Jean-Marie's father, in 1972 ...
MJ: It’s stupid. We had a fight while I was at our parents' house. Then "Bébert", I called him like that, said to my father I do not know what. Albert, I grabbed him, I shook him a bit. That's all, that's what happened ... Then, after that, we always saw each other ...
So a traditional family quarrel, in your opinion ?
MJ: Yes. Afterwards, we had Christmas Eve together, with my brother-in-law, barbecues. They came to us, we went to them. In April 2017, when my sister, Monique, was at the hospital in Gérardmer, I took Albert to see her again ...
Justice is bringing other charges against you. This 13-step staircase for example, in your house. On an anonymous call from the crow, passed to Albert Villemin, we hear someone going up or down a staircase of 13 steps ...
JJ: Here, in the Vosges, if you have a basement and if you are within the standards, you have a staircase of 13 steps.
MJ: Yes, it's legal.
There are also the statements of your only daughter, Valérie, who said that a pair of binoculars is permanently on your living room table and that you are looking with it constantly towards the house of Albert and Monique Villemin, located 800 m below yours in the plain ?
MJ: From our house, we could only see the roof and a window. The binoculars were to watch the deer. When we got to this house, we saw that there were some deer. And then we often went to the ridges, to the Hohneck, up there. I always went to watch the cycle races and took the binoculars.
JJ: She, she often watched too, she's a liar. Not necessarily the home. She was the one who often had them, the binoculars.
Your daughter also said that one day, when you, Marcel, were summoned to Judge Simon, you told him that if something happened, he should not be let down. "He gave me the keys to the house. He looked like he was afraid of something…".
MJ: Valérie has always had the keys to the house. She's our daughter. This is the first time in my life that I have been summoned by a judge to Xonrupt. I was scared, that's all.
And those testamentary letters found at home in which you say that in the Grégory case, you are "100% innocent"? They were written in December 2009, a few days after your DNA sample by the courts. The latter also wonders ...
MJ: They were letters to my family, telling them that if something happened, I had nothing to do with it. I'm not afraid of DNA, they can give it to me whenever they want. I wrote these letters to reassure my brothers and sisters. I didn't even send them, by the way.
There is also this composite portrait of a client of the Hôtel de la Poste (Docelles) on the day of the crime, who seems impatient. Who looks like you ...
MJ: That afternoon I was at work, I was at work. I can only say that.
Jacqueline would be questioned by a writing expertise that would incriminate her on two of the four most important anonymous letters in this file ...
JJ: I never wrote. No, I never wrote a letter !
MJ: The worst thing is to be accused of something you didn't do.
A national daily recently mentioned an expertise in stylometry which would incriminate a suspect as a potential raven. Are you worried ? Are you afraid of being designated by stylometry ?
JJ: No. We don't have to be worried if they are doing their job well. I never wrote. They won't find something that looks like it if I never wrote. We are slowly being accused. They spoil our family for us.
According to some rumors, Jacqueline would be targeted by this expertise ...
MJ: Yes, we know.
JJ: Yeah, but that's not normal. I cannot be named since I never wrote.
Your indictments were canceled in May 2018, for a technical defect. Are you afraid of being worried again ?
MJ: No. No reason to be afraid if justice is doing its job well. We have absolutely nothing to do with the death of little Grégory .
Since the beginning of this case, justice has often been lost, destroying many lives in the process. What image do you have of it ?
MJ: Me, I trust our justice.
JJ: Yeah, it can't "shoot the wrong ambulance".
MJ: Yeah, you can't go wrong with the ambulance. There, they screw up our end of life. While we have a clear conscience.
By Eric NICOLAS and Sergio DE GOUVEIA
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